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2016/2017 NBA Thread
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
4 turnovers by the Dubs is one of the more insane numbers you'll ever see.

Yep. Apparently the 16 turnover disparity (20 for Cavs, 4 or Dubs) was the highest in a finals game in at least 30 years.

glenn
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corrado



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, the career of Chris Bosh looks to be over.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246130/Chris-Bosh-Medically-Ruled-To-Have-Career-Ending-Illness

I would've had Bosh pegged as a reserve for the Cavs next year. They clearly need a big man off the bench, and given Lebron's connections to him, and how they seem to thrive on comeback projects, that wouldve been a no-brainer. I guess deep down, you know Riley didnt want to stomach the idea of another former member of the Heat derailing a title push for the Heat.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we all knew this when he went out the second time, and were hoping he would effectively retire. The sad part is the Bosh wants to still play, which is a brutal risk.
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good quick look at that the Dubs did last night to cover for Steph on defense. Skip the longer video on Green for a moment:

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/1/15727724/draymond-green-stephen-curry-kevin-durant-defense-warriors-game-1

The longer video is at the top here:

http://www.sbnation.com/videos/2017/6/2/15730408/draymond-green-defense-highlights-video-genius-warriors

I'm not going to go so far as to say that Green is a defensive genius unlike any the NBA has ever seen, as Duncan had a lot of similar genius aspects in anchoring the Spurs best defenses... and of course Bill Russell was likely better than both in terms of defensive genius. But I do agree with the less hyperbolic point: Green is a defensive genius. It's wonderful to watch him at his anchoring and directing the defense.
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corrado



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So its looking more and more likely we get a sweep. That is all.
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guren



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously lots of things are going poorly for the Cavs, but they really need to get some production out of JR Smith and Tristan Thompson. They have both been huge negatives for them so far. Thompson is supposed to be the Cavs' best defender, and yet they have a 134.3 defensive rating with him on the court, and a 98.8 rating when he's off.

glenn
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
I'm not going to go so far as to say that Green is a defensive genius unlike any the NBA has ever seen, as Duncan had a lot of similar genius aspects in anchoring the Spurs best defenses... and of course Bill Russell was likely better than both in terms of defensive genius. But I do agree with the less hyperbolic point: Green is a defensive genius. It's wonderful to watch him at his anchoring and directing the defense.

Through the first two games, the Dubs have a 89.1 defensive rating when Draymond is on the floor, 112.8 rating when he is off.

glenn
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jdw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green is a defensive genius.

He just needs to avoid the fouls. Some dumb ones in the game last night, when the refs were calling things really tight early.

* * * * *

Lebron is averaging 29-13-11-2-2 on 55% shooting. The "KD is the best player in the world" nonsense that Pierce tossed out last night is just that - nonsense. If you switched Bron and KD to the opposite teams, the Dubs would win... in a sweep... even easier than they are right now. That's not knocking KD, because he's off the charts. He fits the needs of the team perfectly. But Bron would fit them perfectly as well, in different ways but just as off the charts.
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Steve Yohe



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought game 2 was amazing. I think Cleveland is the 2nd best team in the league and they played great....but GS is just on another level. 4 or 5 times there was times in the game that GS made plays that would demoralized any other team. Curry dribbling around James, the best player in the game, and ending with a lay up would destroy most teams. Seeing your leader get taken apart, makes the lesser players think it isn't your night ...or year.

Cleveland is fighting to play at GS's level...and GS is just playing with in themselves.

The only way to beat GS is control the pace...slow it down...kill them on the boards...hope they miss.....and hit all your shots. Doesn't seem possible without a lot of luck. They only thing that can beat them are themselves....time..like with old age...and major injures to a number of players. Change the rules?

If someone calls this the greatest team of all time....I can't fight that anymore. Maybe some of the old teams without 3-point baskets might be able to beat them. I say that because today's players just practice threes & the inside stuff might be a weakness....but good luck. It's just not there personal it's the way they are coached & play. They have the feel of a champion mentally too.

The weakness I see is Green making something happen bad...& I don't see that happening this year. Any non-sweep is an upset....& I think Cleveland is a real good team.

Could someone pick two or even three players off any team other that GS & Cleveland...and put them on the Lakers...and put the Lakers on the same level as GS? A 100 draft picks aren't going to make them as good as GS. ---Yohe
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jdw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yohe wrote:
Could someone pick two or even three players off any team other that GS & Cleveland...and put them on the Lakers...and put the Lakers on the same level as GS? A 100 draft picks aren't going to make them as good as GS.


No. There aren't three players in the league who can get the Lakers to that level.

The better question is how many teams in the league could you add 3 players to and get them there.

Spurs?

Let's say you add (i) either CP3 or John Wall, (ii) Paul George, and (iii) Anthony Davis to Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills and whatever bench Pop could come up with. I lean a little on CP3 in the above since you're looking for one year, and you're kind of trying to load up on defensive players as well as offense, and CP3 remains a terrific defensive point guard. Davis hasn't won much, but he's also never had Pop as a coach. He's defensively able, though obviously there are better defensive bigs... he's largely in a mess in NO.

C Davis
PF George (though he doesn't like that)
SF Kawhi
SG Green
PG CP3

Excellent defense at every position other than C, though again Davis has the ability and has flashed it, would be in Pop's hands and surrounded by four of the best at the other slots. Get a sense that it would impact him like playing in GSW has impacted KD's defense.

That's a lot of offense, though they don't have the creators that GSW has (Steph, KD, Green, with Iggy off the bench... and Livingston frankly very good for a bench role player).

I'd take the Dubs over that team, depending on what the benches look like.

I'd take that team over the Cavs, whose defense is just a clusterfuck. Lebron is Lebron, so I'm not saying that team above would be a lock. But it's a better team.

Beyond the Spurs...

Shit, I don't know.

If you dropped Kawhi, Paul George and Davis on the Clippers next to CP3 and JJ... I like that team a hell of a lot better than what they had this year. It's an upgrade at all three other positions, and collectively a pretty massive one. Don't know if it beats the Dubs, and Lebron is Lebron.
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corrado



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a disappointing end to the game. Cavs had a good lead in the 4th, but the Warriors came back to win, and that pretty much means in 2 days will be the end of the season.

Another MVP performance by Durant.

But the most questionable move of the game goes to Ty Lue who had Korver in the whole 4th quarter, and they had a good chance to tie the game, but he was suddenly on the bench and the Cavs couldnt recover. Bad coaching.
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

corrado wrote:
But the most questionable move of the game goes to Ty Lue who had Korver in the whole 4th quarter, and they had a good chance to tie the game, but he was suddenly on the bench and the Cavs couldnt recover. Bad coaching.

Korver had a chance to hit the biggest shot of the game. After KD brought the Dubs to within 2 with just over a minute left, LeBron hit Korver for an open corner 3 at the 0:52 mark. Even at the time of the miss, the Cavs' win probability was at 75%. If he hits the shot, the Cavs likely would have had around a 90% chance of winning. So of course Korver misses, and KD comes right back with a pull-up 3. As the cliche goes, it's a make or miss league.

glenn
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
Green is a defensive genius.

He just needs to avoid the fouls. Some dumb ones in the game last night, when the refs were calling things really tight early.

Draymond was not able to avoid some dumb fouls in yesterday's game. However, in his 33 foul-plagued minutes he was a game-high +14. He played the final 6+ minutes with 5 fouls and was excellent down the stretch.

Zach Lowe wrote about him today.

One year later, Draymond Green has no regrets

One of the most interesting revelations in the article is that Draymond called KD directly the night they lost Game 7. I hadn't heard that before.

glenn
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdw wrote:
The better question is how many teams in the league could you add 3 players to and get them there.

Spurs?

Let's say you add (i) either CP3 or John Wall, (ii) Paul George, and (iii) Anthony Davis to Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills and whatever bench Pop could come up with. I lean a little on CP3 in the above since you're looking for one year, and you're kind of trying to load up on defensive players as well as offense, and CP3 remains a terrific defensive point guard.


It's interesting that when choosing a point guard, you mentioned CP3 and Wall, but not RWB or Harden. And, if we are talking just about a year or two, I am with you. CP3 had the best RPM numbers of any point guard this year, including Curry, who was second. I think he would fit in better and is the better defender. Would anybody on this board take Westbrook or Harden over CP3 on this hypothetical team?

glenn
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guren



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Kerr, in response to all the former players who said their team would beat this year's Warriors.



Pop/Kerr in 2020.

glenn
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