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ESPN 30 for 30 aka ESPN Documentaries
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JAG



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 2302

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ricky hated played football despite everything else it offered him. Hated it so much that he ran away in a fashion that most would find humiliating.

You don't think it's a bit scary that somebody found him pills that allow him to play and enjoy the sport?

What happens when he retires in two years, the pills are probably gone and he is that battered Earl Campbell-lite he always feared he would be?

Unless you're selling me that taking these hits in his early-30s is better for him then taking the pounding in this mid-20s.

Jagdip
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Refresh my memory on the pills. What is this magic pill that suddenly won't be available to him when he retires?

I'm also unsure what being banged up when he retires has to do with the story. 90% of the NFL will be banged up when it retires. I don't think the majority of them turn into Mike Tyson or Chris Washburn. Though for all my Washburn jokes over the years, he appears to have straightened himself out for a long stretch:

Washburn traveled long road to recovery

John
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JAG



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sticky Icky Ricky ran all the way to India because of his weed habit (obviously disguising some kind of depression). And that was after it had caused him to get suspended from the NFL.

He gave it up to play football again and I find it hard to believe it's without pill help. His great fear of football was being a physical wreck at the end of it. He's still headed that way.

In a few years, he'll be retired, hurting and smoking a lot of weed. Maybe that doesn't sound that bad.

I like and root for Ricky, but he's a pathetic figure to me.

Jagdip
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jdw
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAG wrote:
Sticky Icky Ricky ran all the way to India because of his weed habit (obviously disguising some kind of depression). And that was after it had caused him to get suspended from the NFL.


I'm aware of that, and the documentary covered that: his mental issues and the weed and the suspensions.


Quote:
He gave it up to play football again and I find it hard to believe it's without pill help. His great fear of football was being a physical wreck at the end of it. He's still headed that way.


I wouldn't be surprised if he takes painkillers like (more than) half the league. If he's more of a wreck after his playing career than he is now, there really isn't any issue getting painkillers after retirement.

On the other hand, the type of medicine that he's studied and his love of weed in the past, makes it more likely that he'll go with his alternative medicine and at worst loads of weed to deal with post career pain. I don't see a post career pot head Ricky being close to the trainwreck Tyson is.


Quote:
In a few years, he'll be retired, hurting and smoking a lot of weed. Maybe that doesn't sound that bad.


Or a small amount of weed. Or no weed and all the holistic stuff that he's been spending time on.


Quote:
I like and root for Ricky, but he's a pathetic figure to me.


I actually was a Ricky Hater and didn't root for him. I think the doc is worthwhile to watch for the reasons Rich points points out. The doc doesn't pull punches, and shows Ricky warts and all: it catches him at some of his worst moments and as a pretty lost boy. The doc maker was exceptionally lucky to have come in contact with Ricky when he did. But out of all of it, Ricky doesn't come across as pathetic. Mixed up, lost, trying to figure out who he was, far from a saint. The more recent scenes in the Doc show someone who had their shit together far more than the lost boy, and it really wasn't just football (or even mostly football) that was driving the improvements.

Could he go back off the cliff? Sure. But the drop for him isn't far. He's largely a hippy mentality, and more likely to be doing his weed and catching his buzz than smoking crack, committing major felonies, or raping women.

John
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Iron Chad



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 1163

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got done watching the Tupac/Tyson 30 for 30 and it's probably the worst one. Just terrible. The best part is Maya Angelou, and she's already told her `Pac stories on other more interesting shows. The rapping kids and the comic book art were comically bad and terribly out of place for a bio with such a serious subject matter. I think I hated this more than the Band That Wouldn't Die because Band was at least professionally made even if I hated the subject matter and its treacly feel. Tupac/Tyson was just amateur hour.

On the OJ 30 for 30, I really liked the style of it being done just through TV clips from the day with no narration. Probably resonated with me because I was on vacation with my family and we were glued to the TV all afternoon and evening and I remember flipping through several channels with him, then my Dad and I sat at the (in)famous Florabama bar on the FL/AL Gulf coast and watched the climax as it cut from the NBA Finals. Florabama is (or was then, I presume it has not changed much) one of the wilder bars on that stretch of the Gulf coast (the fact my Dad was in there at all is funny because he's one of the more reserved and least "partying" people on Earth), but there was not a party atmosphere there that night at all. Other than a couple of frat boys playing pool, folks from my age (22) and up were just quietly drinking and watching to see if OJ was going to die on live television.

The Arnie/OJ Hertz commercial during the closing credits was also a creepy bonus since the premise was "loveable" OJ getting in an argument with Arnie over what money saving feature of Hertz was better only OJ's anger didn't seem much like comedic acting knowing what we know about the Juice now.

One interesting note was a huge brawl broke out in the Finals game while NBC was covering the OJ brawl and that was the only piece of footage the NBA wouldn't allow to be used in the documentary, even though the fight is referenced in the commentary to the game in the doc. Adding the 911 audio to the chase added a new perspective to it, especially since the 911 audio was excluded from the trial. OJ randomly moaning was just weird, I'm surprised he didn't bust out a "bad Chinese food" excuse for his behavior.

I've yet to get to the Martina/Evert one, but I'm looking forward to it.
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guren



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this was covered in the 30 for 30 episode or not, but SI's Jon Wertheim mentioned Ricky Williams fairly prominently in a recent article about depression among athletes.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_wertheim/09/21/depression/index.html
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jdw
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good article, but really a springboard for someone to do a massive article/study on the issue. I think people are just starting to understand the depth of the issue, not just the "rare examples" of it.

John
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 808

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, just saw the Tupac/Tyson and the Terry Fox episodes.

Tupac/Tyson was better than what I expected. I still don't see the correlation between Tupac and sports. I grew up a Tupac fan as well as a Tyson fan, but they are very similar people in that they could be extremely charming and lure people into believing that they are better people than they really are/were. For instance, they went into the lyrics of 'gotta keep your head up' which were beautifully done, but OTOH Tupac relished in 'thug life' and the East Coast vs. West Coast beef which really was a marketing scheme for him to make more money, which ultimately got him killed.

Tyson appealed to me when I was a kid because of his dominance and his life story, but he also ability to discuss the history of boxing and boxers in such detail, but the reality was that he was a kid that would help old ladies with their groceries so he could rob them and claimed that the best punch he ever threw was at his wife, Robin Givens.

After awhile with Mike I just 'gave up' on him and with Tupac I liked his music, but realized he was just another bullshitter.

The Terry Fox story was a real heartwrencher. As far as subject matter, there wasn't a lot of it or stuff that was overly interesting, but I think it was a story that needed to be told and certainly provided some teary eyed moments.







YR
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Rian



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tupac was "studio", hell he was born in Baltimore I believe...if that's west side then I'm a monkey's uncle!

Just hanging with the wrong crowd and pissing off the wrong people.
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 808

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rian wrote:
Tupac was "studio", hell he was born in Baltimore I believe...if that's west side then I'm a monkey's uncle!

Just hanging with the wrong crowd and pissing off the wrong people.


Tupac spent his life in B-more, NY and Oakland. Three pretty rough places to live. He wasn't *that* studio, although he was a dancer for Digital Underground. I liked the fact that Tyson pointed out how small he was. The first time I saw him in person, I think it was '93 I couldn't get over how small he was and then he really blew up and then morphed into this 'Thug Life' character and I remember thinking to myself 'do people know how small this guy is?' The same with DMX, very small guy.

I hear all of the time 'how great would Tyson be if Cus D'amado didn't die?'

I think he would be pretty much the same boxer/person he is today. This isn't a good guy and never was and he has always had severe psychological problems. I think he would've turned on Cus, made the same dumb decisions boxing wise and gotten into the same trouble. But very few people realize that about Tyson.

Same with Tupac and women waxing poetically about the few songs where he praised women, while neglecting the lyrics were he called women ho's and bitches.

Terry Fox was much more real than Tyson or Tupac could and their followers could ever imagine. I'm glad his story was told and that I got to watch it.







YR
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jdw
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed on Tyson if Cus and Jacobs had lived. It would have taken a bit longer for him to meltdown, but eventually Don King and others would have ripped him away, and he would have come apart. He always was a timebomb waiting to go off, and not a good guy. Just a fucked up person in the head.

John
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 808

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got to see the Two Escobars.

Holy shit this was wild.

The thing that stuck with me is just how different other part sof the world can be. I could never imagine in a million years what it would be like to be in a place that was 1/100th as nuts and violent as Colombia was back in the Escobar days. Growing up you knew it was violent there and that's where cocaine was coming from, but it was far more insane than anything I could imagine in my mind.

It also reminded me of watching some type of Dateline episode with some sick story as it was one of those 'here we show the depravity of man' stories.

I mean we are talking about a situation where if you took Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, George Steinbrenner, Charlie Finley combined and multiplied it by 1000.

This was the best one so far. Probably not the one I *liked* the most, but the best one. Incredibly sad as you know the result and when Andres Escobar accidentally scored that goal you just start to look at him like a sheep that's going to be slaughtered soon. All over a game.




YR
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JAG



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone should watch "Once Brothers" about the relationship of Vlade Divac and Drazen Petrovic.

It's just fantastic, and probably top 3 in this series.

Jagdip
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched it and thought it was good.

I'd put 'The Two Escobars' as #1 so far

Then 'The Band That Wouldn't Die'.

After that, it's a toss up.

I really liked Run Ricky Run, Into the Wind and Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL.




YR
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Yakuza Rich



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched the Marion Jones 30 for 30 episode.

It was a waste of time and severly disappointing because I think Singleton has as much talent as most of the 30 for 30 directors, yet his show came off as overly apologetic for Jones.

Probably the thing that floored me is that so far the 30 for 30 shows have been 'honest' in regards to the subject matter's life/situation/etc. Even if the subject matter had a spin about something negative, they at least addressed it

Here, there was zero mention of why Jones really got thrown in the clink, by being heavily in debt and being involved in a multimillion dollar check fraud scheme.

They went into her jail time where she served 45 days in solitary confinement. The details of why seem a bit sketchy and the lack of acknowledgement of the check fraud and her lying of using HGH makes me question the truthfulness of her story as to why she went to solitary confinement.

Now she's playing in the WNBA. I never watch it, but she seems like a success story here as she's only averaging 4 ppg and 10 minutes per game, but she hadn't played basketball in 12 years and they did show some highlight footage and you could see some flashes of her talent.

But in the end the show wasn't all that revealing and thus not all that entertaining. And the fact that they would cover up the fact that she's dead broke and was involved in a big scheme and that's why she got prosecutor's attention, makes me wonder if she learned anything at all and if she was just upset because she got caught.








3JACK
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